Mullen Pre-RP tuning machines

[Dean Smith]

I have a really nice lacquer Mullen D-10 that is in need of a set of tuning machines. It currently has Grovers on it and the anchor screw flange has been taken back so they will fit properly on the headstock. I know there has been some discussion on this in the past here on the forum, but I have yet to discover what model number these tuners are.

It appears that Del turned down the post on them a bit to accommodate the tight quarters between the 5th and 6th strings on the keyhead. I am able to take the screw flange down and turn the post down if necessary. However, I am not finding a model that doesn't have less than 1" of post length. What I need is a post that is about .75" from the body of the tuner to the end of the post.

I have found the Grover 210 model which is pretty darn close, but it does not have the screw flange at all on it. This poses a problem because there is no flat surface against the headstock to keep the tuner from rotating once installed. About a year ago, I contacted Mullen to find what model tuner they were, and I learned they are not the same as the RP model and the G2. As we know, some of the parts for Pre-RP are no longer in production from Mullen.

Would anyone know which model tuner that Del used when to took down the screw flange to fit the headstock? Simply put, I can't find a model with a short enough string post.

Much appreciated....wishing everyone a Happy New Year!

[Bobby D. Jones]

I just checked the keys on my S12 Pre Royal Precision Mullen, The keys are Grover. The shaft is about 13/16" long, About 1/16" over the 3/4" you was asking about. The shafts on the 6-7 strings are not trimmed, But are just a few thousands of an inch between them.

I am not sure if a 10 string key head has same dimensions
as my 12 key head. I had to drill out the holes on a MSA to fit new keys.

The key's on my Mullen guitar do not have an anchor screw flange. No marks anything had been cut off either.
Some Grover keys do not have an anchor screw flange, But a pin that sticks out on the back flat, And it fits in a hole drilled in the key head bar. So key will not turn under string pressure.
I suggest you remove 1 of the keys, Take pictures of key with cell phone with a ruler for scale. Contact Sweet Water or other big music supply company. Talk to a sales person, So you can get the exact keys.
Have them check the shaft dimeter that goes through the key head also.
Grover are now making some metric measurement keys, Check the diameter it may be 3/8", Some Grovers now have 10mm (.393)shaft and would take drilling out the holes.

Good Luck finding the right keys. Happy Steelin.

[Larry Dering]

I'm keeping a close watch on this thread because I own a D10 PRP Mullen from 1994. It's crazy that tuners are constantly changing specifications.

[Lee Baucum]

Del built me a PRP U-12 back in 1997. It had Grover tuners with the pin that fit into a hole on the key head. The only way I could snug up the tuners properly was by removing the washer that was between the key head and the tuner. That way more of the threads were available for the nut to grab and tighten properly.

-Lee

[Dean Smith]

Thank you for the replies so far, gentlemen. Bobby, thank you for looking your guitar over. I really appreciate the Pre-RP guitars and hopefully we can solve this problem for others, as Larry mentioned. The Grover 210 models do have the tiny anchor pin that would need to be drilled out on the keyhead, which apparently Del had done in the past as Lee pointed out. Yet the simplest way is to cut off the anchor flange from the new tuner if we could figure out the model they are. My OCD is starting to come out.

It is worth mentioning that the reason for the replacement is I have one tuner that has the threads pulled or stripped by someone in the past and it rotates in the keyhead. It won't tighten sufficiently.

Stay tuned, putting up pictures and measurements shortly...

[Dean Smith]

Here are some photos that attempt to show the modification to the anchor flange and the length of the post (.734"), which is the biggest issue. I am hoping they depict the issue visually for everyone. I didn't take a photo, but the internal spread between the keyhead at the 5th and 6th string is .95"

Thanks again for looking...

[Bobby D. Jones]

Hi Dean: Since I am going to rebuild a Mullen S12, Right after January 1. I done a search and found keys that may fit a Mullen Pre Royal Precision guitar.

Musicians Friend has a 10 key set of Grover 210 key machines. That looks like the keys on my 12 string. For 10 key set they list 84.00+shipping.
May be a good starting point for your hunt. You need to verify is the back flat on the key, String shaft length And shaft housing diameter Matches yours.
Good Luck on your project.

[Dean Smith]

Thank you, Bobby...I think I am going to order a set for one of the necks and give them a try. I have found the Grover 210 model to be as close to anything I have found. I may have to just bite the bullet and prepare myself to drill the keyhead out to accept the locking pin for each one. It seems to be the proper way to resolve this, like what Del did on Lee's guitar. These Pre-RP guitars are just too good to give up on them. I want to resolve this the way Del would have.

Still looking for other replies if anyone can add to this. I will update as I work through this for others.

[Dean Smith]

For those following, i have attached the dimensional drawings from Grover on the 210 pedal steel tuners.

[Dean Smith]

I ordered the Grover 210 series tuners from Musician's Friend. Attached are photos comparing the size of the new tuner to the old tuners that were taken off. Even though the new tuner is "smaller" in appearance, they did require drilling the hole in the keyhead to 25/64" which was not a problem at all. The barrels are larger in diameter than the old ones.

Secondarily, I have a Mullen Royal Precision D-10 also, and the Grover 210 models appear to be a direct replacement. The only caveat to that is between strings 5 and 6, you will need to take down the string post on the new tuners just a bit for clearance. I will also have to drill a very small pin/dowel hole in the keyhead to accommodate the new tuners so they will not rotate. I likely will finish that today. Not a very difficult job if it isn't rushed. More to come.

Happy New Year!

[Bobby D. Jones]

New Years day I started on my Mullen S12 project . Got the pedal bar tore down, Cleaned and lubed, Got pedal rods cleaned and lubed the sliding spring latches.
Today I tore the key head down. The keys have a pin right behind the vertical housing the key button screw gear is in.

You may want to consider making a jig to drill the pin holes, Having to drill 20 holes for a D10.
Good Luck in this project, Happy Steelin.

[Dean Smith]

Greetings, Bobby....I did exactly that. I did not drill them all the way through the keyhead to keep the installation clean looking. However, like you suggested, I made a jig to set the holes exactly where they needed to be. The string post hole in the keyhead were chamfered a bit and so I needed to ensure the drill bit didn't walk. I have a lathe but chose to do this on a simple drill press.

I will post more pictures today for those that are following. Grandkid stuff this morning.

[Dean Smith]

More progress photos...Anchor pins drilled partially through to keep it clean looking on the backside of the keyhead.

[Dean Smith]

The finished product. I am very satisfied with how everything turned out. Tuners will no longer be a problem on this Pre-RP. If one needs replacing, it will be a quick process knowing what fits the guitar now.

Thank you for following and I hope this helps someone out down the road.

[Lee Baucum]

Good job, Dean!

~Lee

[Lee Baucum]

Back in earlier Mullen history, they were producing guitars that had tuners incorporated into the keyhead.

I’ve often wondered how they accomplished that and if any of them are still in service.

~Lee

[Bobby D. Jones]

Great looking job. Should not have any key problems for another 25 years or so.

[Jerry Overstreet]

This is probably not relevant to Dean's thread...maybe ought to have it's own topic which, by the way, has been discussed before.

I reckon there are still several guitars with Del's in house built keyhead tuners around. I had about a '93 D10 that had them. I also bought and subsequently sold another set of them.

As I recall, there was a problem getting machines at the time so Del bought the gearing, I think from Grover, machined the keyheads, tuning machine bodies and buttons and assembled them.

One of my steeler friends still uses them on his mid 90s PRP having preferred them over the mini Grovers, so ordered it that way...so did his brother from whom I bought the one I had.

I never tried to disassemble them but I did not figure out how they were assembled and how round post bushings tightened up...musta used or built a special tool for that...but Del was a master craftsman who let few things stand in his way of producing guitars.

mul enclosed.jpg

[Dean Smith]

With respect to Jerry's post, I do like how clean those integrated tuners look. I have only seen a set of these in-person on one occasion, I think. They certainly appear to require a significant amount of effort to machine and install them.

[Lee Baucum]

With respect to Jerry's post, I do like how clean those integrated tuners look. I have only seen a set of these in-person on one occasion, I think. They certainly appear to require a significant amount of effort to machine and install the.

Another testament to Del’s knowledge and skills.

Speaking of which, remember the big hullabaloo that was created when the G2 was first released? Those “bent cross rods” created some long discussions about why they should or shouldn’t work. Del knew what he was doing.

~Lee

[Jerry Overstreet]

Dean, great job adapting your keyhead to fit the replacement machines. Good to know that the 210s are not a drop in changeout. I assumed wrongly that they were from previous discussions and recommendations. Good to know.